What has come from a second IVF BFN is more frustration and lots more questions. Reviewing my cycle on my own (my WTF appointment isn't until the 29th) and going over everything in my head made me realize that there has to be more to it. My lining was 12mm at my ultrasound prior to the transfer so I imagine the day of transfer it was around 15-18mm, the necessary thickness for a successful implantation. We used the embryo that was farthest long in development and they assisted it in hatching. Joe and I both had genetic testing done prior to our fresh cycle to rule out any genetic abnormalities that we might carry. I really thought that this would all be a recipe for success and I was wrong.
The outcome of this cycle has raised lots of questions, many that I didn't even know that I would be asking until I took to the wonderful world of Instagram and reached out to my TTC sisters for what I should be asking at our WTF consultation. The biggest question that we need to answer before I would move forward will be is it the embryos or is it me? From what I am understanding from the doctor, PDG testing isn't necessary on the embryos because our genetics testing came back as negative (although I am CF carrier, Joe is not), but I am still going to ask if it's something that we should reconsider doing. I'm also going to ask about PGS testing, basically testing for chromosomal abnormalities in the embryos. Those are two important tests that I feel we need to do to rule out the embryos that could have issues. There is no sense in transferring embryos that are abnormal because they won't implant or could implant and end up causing birth defects in our child. The only problem with these kinds of testing is that they can only be done on embryos that were fertilized via ICSI and I'm not sure how many of our 5 frosties were done that way.
There are also a multitude of testing that can be done on me to determine if I'm the problem. One would be testing for Natural Killer Cells (NK Cells) and other immune system issues. They can cause the body to react abnormally to an implanting embryo. To treat issues with NK Cells an infusion called an Intralipid infusion can be done. From what I've seen online this is an infusion that takes anywhere from 90 minutes to 4 hours. It's made up of natural fats containing egg yolk and soya oil and it's commonly used to treat patients with MS and cancer, but can also be used to aid IVF patients with immune disorders.
Two other options are an endometrial scratch and an endometrial biopsy. An endometrial scratch to me sounds awful, but it is something that I really hope Dr. G will consider. The only downside to this procedure is it has to be done on day 21 of a 28 day cycle so this could require waiting another month since I'm at CD1. During an endo scratch, a catheter is used to "scratch" the lining of the uterus which will cause the uterus to go into "repair reaction" which can help aid the embryo in implantation. An endometrial biopsy, or E-Tegrity test is used to detect the presence of Beta-3 integrin which is a protein for the embryo to successfully implant. I asked about the E-Tegrity test already and the nurse says that our clinic does not offer that testing, but we are welcome to ask Dr. G and possibly have it done elsewhere.
These are some issues that I never knew even existed. I had never heard of any of these things until my friend Beth mentioned the E-Tergrity test which then prompted me to seek out the help of my lovely TTC sisters & find out what else I need to be asking. I am afraid that they will push transferring 2 embryos as the solution to our problem and I am not willing to do that at this point. We want to do what we have to for a healthy pregnancy not what we have to just to get pregnant, I am certain that if this 3rd cycle doesn't work we will probably be seeking out a 2nd opinion which I would not look forward to doing. I like our clinic, and our team of doctors and nurses, they have been great, but sometimes a situation just needs to be reevaluated and looked at by a fresh set of eyes. We have a long road ahead of us before we have to come to making that decision. I am hopeful that our doctor will really listen to our concerns and take them into consideration and hopefully agree to some, if not all, of this testing. I don't see the point in going through another round and doing the exact same thing, it just seems like a waste of an embryo and a waste of our time and money. Hopefully we will be able to get some solid answers, if nothing else to rule out some of these potential issues.
m so sorry your IVF cycle didn't result in a BFP this time. For what's it's worth, my husband and I did the PGS. We sent in 6 embryos for testing and only THREE came back normal, without chromosone issues. So that could have resulted in the other three as transfers and BFNs. Just because your genetics came back fine, well, it says nothing about the chromosone abnormalities of your embryo. Not that I am doctor, but I bet you just got a bad embryo. Crossing my fingers you can do the PGS!
ReplyDeleteThank you! That's what I'm wondering myself now. Maybe they chose 2 embryos this cycle and last cycle that were abnormal. I really don't think that the issue is with me, I believe its with the embryos. I really hope the doctor will agree to test them!
DeleteHave you read/heard of the book Making Babies by Sami S. David? My acupuncturist recommended it to me and though I'm not finished with it yet, I've found it really fascinating and hopeful at the same time, might be worth giving a read, it has definitely helped me feel like there is hope.
ReplyDeleteNo I haven't I'll definitely and have to check it out! Thank you!
Deletei hope that this new info will help and things will go your way soon! crossing my fingers :)
ReplyDeleteI am so impressed by all of your knowledge and research. It's crazy to me sometimes how doctors don't mention some of these tests, but thankfully you are on top of it all! Hoping this information keeps pointing you in the right steps!!!
ReplyDeleteThese were some of the questions I personally asked my Dr. Well the PGS testing, of course he said he didn't recommend it but if we wanted to do it they would do it. We just had to keep in mind that they usually do that type of testing before it reaches blastocyst stage. Also since they're already frozen it's possible they won't survive the thaw/or the re frozen stage. Maybe you can ask your Dr to elaborate more on that to see if what I was told is true. Goodluck! Demand some answers....i know i did because I was tired of hearing "You're so young it's going to happen." We did do a Hysteroscopy before this transfer because my new Dr believed it would be a benefit to have a fresh new blood flow in my uterus since she was scraping off old lining.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it wonderful how the TCC community has come together and we can all help each other. We all get slightly different answers, provide each other with more questions to ask, etc. I love it! I am so sorry about your BFN, not much to say to make it better...just sucks! :( But on the bright side, you seem like you have gained a lot of knowledge the last few days and my fingers are crossed you get somewhere with your dr. and he proceeds how you want to.
ReplyDeleteI am so glad that you have such a support system and community to help you with this - I'm sure having so many unknowns is tough! Much love, girlfriend!
ReplyDeleteHoping you find some answers sugars! But if not, always remember that with God all things are possible. Doctors have limitations where God does not so I am confident that no matter what the doc says, God can overrule :)
ReplyDeleteMy favorite verse that I have on my desk right now is this...
"Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26
I just love this one!! xo
waitingforbabybird.com
Thank you, that is a great reminder! I am really curious as to what the doctor will say! Have a great weekend!
DeleteI've never responded before but wanted to share that we did PGS without ICSI. And, they only tested those that made it to Day 5. All of our 6 embryos that looked "perfect" under the microscope were genetically abnormal. The results were clear that the issue was with my eggs and we have since found an egg donor, etc. Without that testing, we would have transferred each of those 6 embryos which would have resulted in BFNs repeatedly. As devastating as it was to experience the reality, we felt blessed to not have to endure additional failures (we've been TTC for 6 years). Asking questions and seeking answers is important and it seems like you are on your way! Sending good wishes your way.
ReplyDeleteI'm so proud of you for seeking out this research and be if your own advocate! That's so important. I truly hope you get some answers and your Dr is on board. If not, like you said, it might be time to reevaluate. So proud of you Elena! I can't even beging to phathom how difficult this is for you and Joe. You really are taking the bull by the horns though girlfriend. I'm continuing to pray for y'all. -Xx
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry that it didn't work out for you this time. If you find your doctor unwilling to figure out what's going on or you'd like to start a new approach Dr. Charles E. Miller in Naperville (not sure how close that is for you) is awesome. We had 5 unsuccessful IUIs and other interventions with another doctor in Aurora and no information as to why. In fact he actually told me that he didn't understand why I wasn't getting pregnant and dropped my chances to very slim of ever getting pregnant. I did one cycle of IVF with doctor Miller and got pregnant the first try. He ran a bunch of tests and of course did a very individualized medication protocol - meaning that I didn't feel like he had a "standard" way of doing IVF for everyone the first round. He's not the most fuzzy warm doctor, but he listens and his nursing staff is AWESOME! - just a thought if you feel stuck. I know we did and we probably would have stuck with our old RE just out of not knowing what else to do - THANK GOD my insurance changed and I had to change REs because of that. Anyway - Keep your chin up. The road sucks but most people end up getting to the finish line one way or another. Take care of yourself and your hubby.
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